Back and More Pissed Off Then Ever

Yes, I am back.  Hold your applause till after my entire post please.

So recently I have read some postings by a new blogger who calls himself “Mainstream Jew“.  This is he has proved in one very quick night to be completely false since he specifically said, there is no creator who is receiving your prayers”.  No matter if someone is Orthodox, Haredi, Reform, Conservative or any other sect the majority of Jews believe there is a G-d in heaven.  How to observe his laws is in question, but the actual existence of G-d? Mainstream Jews believe in Him. If you don’t believe in Him? Then don’t call yourself Jewish, because while you are to me (assuming you have a Jewish mother), technically to the world you are an atheist.

Second I he is just like DK, SJ, OTD and everyone else like them who hates religious correct Judaism.  We must be tolerant of their views, but ours? If they make Jews look crazy we must stop.  This is exactly what happened in Germany at the beginning of the Reform movement.  “Shut down Orthodoxy! (a term they came up with and as my friend Factual Basis points out should be a racist slur) Close their mikvahs! Close the kosher slaughterhouses! We Jews are just like the rest of you! Don’t pay attention to the freaks!”  It’s really crazy the double standards that we are subject to.  I’m honestly considering changing the name of the blog to double standards because most of posts point them out between them and us.

What evidence is there that he/she/it would want you to pray to him for three hours on a Saturday (and how do we know its actually Saturday and not Tuesday).

How long has it been since you have been to Shul MSJ?  My shabbat davening is 2 hours MAX and that’s on a bad weekend.  Next, personally I try and go to shul every single day of the week.  It’s not just saturday, the reason most people go then is because they don’t have work because of the shabbat.  The shabbaton is the 7th day of the week, hence Saturday.  Why not Sunday? Because its not.  The Jews for thousands of years had shabbaton on a Saturday because that’s the day G-d told us was the 7th day.  If its any other day how would they get the millions of Jews all to change the day? How? Wouldn’t there be sects that had it on the old day, that were left over from the old guard?

Which trasitions very nicely into my next point.

What evidence is there that the Torah is his rule and guidebook?

Because he told us.  Yes he told at least 1 million Jews that this is his rule.  This wasnt the 1990’s where someone could have pulled off the special effects or dupted everyone into “hearing” G-d’s voice.  And how to I know it happened? Because my father who was told by his father by his father by his father and so on and so on back to my relative who was at Mount Sinai.  There is someone I know who can literally trace their passing down of the Torah all the way back to Moses (not that he is related, but that he has an accurate line straight from the source of teaching the torah).  I’m waiting for the famous “but there is no archeological evidence” actually there is someone that perfectly correlates with some stuff on the book of prophets.  What about the Torah itself you ask?  Well if you know anything about archeology, you know the famous line “a lack of evidence is not an evidence of lack”.  Just because we haven’t found it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.  All the stuff that has been found does not contradict (in fact most of it supports) stories in the torah.

Whats amazing is yet another double standard.  Everyone agrees there was a Hammurabi code of law.  This is based on very limited finds on the code itself.  However there is no debate as to its existence and place in history.  But the torah? Well it requires us to do something so we must apply a different standard!

The torah was given to our ancestors by G-d himself.  They were there.  The same way we know there was a Civil War, or a Roman Empire, or anything else we didn’t personally live through.  We have history both from first hand accounts and from finds.  While the exodus from egypt has yeilded limited finds its not surprising if you actually think about it.  No one knows their exact route, plus there haven’t been extensive tries to find results, and it’s the desert so digs are very hard especially when one doesnt know even a general 5 mile area to look.

As for your comment about woman equality? You have no idea how I feel on the matter, but of course all orthodox Jews are the same right? I will address my views on woman in Judaism in a post in the near future.

Yes, I’m back and better than ever.  I will keep fighting off these attacks on our people, you do your part and keep reading

So These Are the Arguments of the “Intellectuals”

Many times we have heard people who hate hassidic, yeshivish, and in general more religous people, argue that these groups are not “intellectual” and the only books they look at are the gemara so they obviously know nothing about a scholarly argument.

On that note I would like to point out what some people I have been arguing with have said after I wrecked them in an intellectual argument.

Half Sours:

You sir, are liar, liar pants on fire. And everyone knows it now. Another kiruvnik discredited. My work here is done.

DK:

Cheerer, have you considered dating a militant feminist? Because your whole, “That’s not funny!” refrain would go over quite well with those women.

DK after someone questioned his making holocaust jokes in the context of the Heeb Magazine Contest for fake holocaust stories

Liz: No matter how you want to spin it, Holocaust “jokes” are not funny.

DK:  Then don’t laugh.

And of course DK’s response to my argument based on his making a satirical posting about the OU giving a haskgacha to Zyklon B

Me: I will not be told that I “didn’t think” from someone who marginalizes the holocaust.

DK: I will not have one of my best satires marginalized by someone who connects issues that are not interrelated.

These are the people who claim there that frummies are “anti-intellectual”.

These are the people who are trying to stop kiruv.

These are the people who say religious people are stopping the advancement of the Jewish People

These are the people we fight for future of our people.

Don’t ever forget it.

Calling the Pot Black

I don’t take well to insults to my character.  Being called a liar? That has to be up there as one of the biggest insults to my character that someone can make.  Recently Kvetcher has called me a liar, and claimed I didn’t think when he mistook my intentions in one of my posts, and now (despite his own rules) says i’m “not very bright”.

So lets go through the times that DK has written with hyperbole just like I did, but I’m the bad person.

Here DK wrote,

I think for refusing to wear tefillin, the son should be publicly whipped, his apartment “donated” to a yeshiva, his secular whore of a girlfriend dragged by a mehadrin Egged-bus around town, and just for good measure, a Modern Orthodox girl should get bleached.

He was clearly trying to mock what some crazies did to some people who weren’t keeping up with their religious standard.  But by his rules we must believe he actually believes we should do those things.

Here it says,

And I am not going to shake hands with Eli anymore. Now I realize…he is just trying to cop a feel.

Well I should hope DK has not shaken Eli’s hand since that date, because then he is the liar.

On this page Kelsey posts a picture of Jim Jones who was the leader of the Jonestown cult where they killed a congressman and themselves.  So his implication is that NCSY will get you to kill yourself and members of congress.  I’m sure that wasn’t his point, but he “didnt think” when using someone like Jones to make a point.

In the same vein, here, Kvetcher has a picture of Stalin and actually has a tag saying that it is Rabbi Pinchas Stolper.  So we are to believe that Rabbi Stolper killed millions of people, ran communist Russia, helped defeat Nazi Germany after making a deal with them, and most importantly is dead.

So, were you trying to make a point with all these examples  (i have many more I just stuck with these), or did you mean for them to be taken literally? Did you think before posting them?

Fortunately, when dealing with people who hate religious people so much, you get used to the double standard.

It was Bound to Happen…

Well, it was bound to happen.  Sooner or later, despite the fact that DK applauded my disagreement with JSU, Kvetcher has attacked me.  He does this if you like kiruv, or in this case…logic, and the English language?

Let me explain.  If you look at the comment “war” that has been going on my last posting there has been a major disagreement between me, HS and DK.  The main reason I am being attacked on his page is my statement that,

rather then let it be at that (there are far worse traditions for people to attack in Judaism) people like DK attack this tradition (albeit not as the main focus of the posting) as if it also involves killing a human baby.

While there is a great more that we argue about this is what he took exception with.  He begins his post by claimingthat I did not

much success at countering my attacks on Big Kiruv.

Actually, I answered all of your attacks in the comments.  If anything, your post on your page is because you were so fed up with getting smacked around on my page that you figured you would use your own soapbox to try and make it look like you were winning.  Nice try.

My defense of the “killing babies” comment is based on the fact that I was using exaggeration to prove a point.  DK says i was lying.  I let you the public be the judge.  However, let me give you the following points to consider.

The American Heritage Dictionary says that an exaggeration is an intransitive verb which is defined as,

To make overstatements

But I think exaggeration was probably not the right word to use.  Rather I should have used Hyperbole which is defined as

a figure of speech that uses an exaggerated or extravagant statement to create a strong emotional response. As a figure of speech it is not intended to be taken literally.

Wow.  That’s amazing.  Anyone who actually read what DK wrote would know that he didnt actually say it was like killing a baby.  I  even linked to his article so that anyone could read it.  Now he may claim that people may not read it and so they wouldn’t know what he actually said.   Then my question would be: why did you use the exact same argument against someone who wanted you to speak of the different view on JSU?

Brad:  “I applaud your passion for this subject. But, you are clearly masking some aspects of the article for it to fit your agenda.”

DK: “And the article in its entirety is linked.”

Double standards? I think so. But typical DK, the facts won’t stop him.

I think that’s enough for everyone to stew on for a while.  If he continues his assault I will post a list of articles on his site that do EXACTLY what i did (here are two for a preview, one, two)  I used those two because they require no explanation.  All the others I have require an explanation  to understand.

I know I didnt hold up my end by posting the article about respecting other Jews like i said i would.  That will be soon, I had to address this first.

Back to Posting

Its been a while, I know and I’m sorry.  But with the economy the way it is, and Comrade Obama trying to turn this country into a socialist paradise, it has been very hard to find time to post.

Unfortunately, unlike many of the other bloggers I read and like I can’t spend my time doing this when I have a job.  Maybe one day I can become popular enough to do this full time, but I’m not there yet.

I hope to get back to posting more often now that my life has stabilized somewhat.

-The Cheerer

A Comment on Commenting

For those of you new to the commenting on “The Cheerer” let me be clear on the policies.

All comments, ESPECIALLY dissenting, ones will be accepted.  Personal attacks are not.  If you attack someone else personally (be it me or a fellow commentor) I reserve the right to remove your comment and put you in moderation

If it is your first time commenting you comment will remain in moderation until I approve it (this helps keep the crazies out).  After you first approved comment you will be free to comment at your leisure until a violation of the rules occurs.  (hear that SJ? I don’t moderate every comment till I can respond, only the first one).

Also, self promotion without adding something to the coversation is not allowed.  So, comments like “Check out my latest post” or “Look at what i said here” will not be allowed unless they are being added to a comment of yours to save space, or if you prefer not to reiterate something you already said.  If you are merely trying to gain readership, try adding to the conversation.

RE: Two Mosholim Part One

A blogger (who has changed his name over and over again because he keeps changing his mind about how he feels about Observant Judaism) recently wrote a post that offers two examples and asks what we (the reader) would do.  Disclaimer: the examples are obviously written in such a way to beg a specific answer.  When doing so he distorts things, makes things into facts that are theories, and ignores things that have been proved, as I will show.  Lets just do the first one today:

Your friend tells you that a super natural being exists. You check up on that, and it turns out nobody has ever seen this being, or has any good evidence that the being exists. The whole thing seems to be entirely fantasy.

Obviously I (in this example) haven’t done a good job checking up on it.  Not only is there a document that is attested to be true at the time by over 2 million people, but this book has an unbroken chain since that time with little to no questioning of differences in the existing text since (besides additions).  It is little to no different from when we are told there was a civil war, or a holy roman empire or even a holocaust…eye witness testimony.  Somehow the Torah is no longer an eyewitness testimony! If we find a Native American document from the exact same time talking about an event no one will question that accuracy of it.

THAT answer is just for starters…but lets more on

When you tell your friend this, he has a conniption fit, and tells you that nobody has ever proven that this being does not exist either.

That is an argument made by people who don’t really believe in G-d and merely want to believe in G-d.  No rational G-d fearing Jew who is worth his weight in gold actually uses that argument.

You think your friend is nuts. But then your friend tell you that not only does this being exist, but it wrote a book, and he shows you the book. You look at the book, and it looks like a typical collection of far fetched miracle tales, and out of date laws and moral values, very similar to many other ancient books.

Except for a great number of distinctions. 1) This is the ONLY book that claims that G-d appeared to more than 1 person at a time, certainly the only one that claims a revelation to 2 million people.  2) I love how liberals all believe that moral values can be out of date.  If they are moral values they should be a constant 3) This “typical collection of far fetched miracles” is only typical because all the other major western religions based their stories off of ours.  Its not typical if everyone stole our version!

Certainly there’s nothing about the book which would make you think a super natural being wrote it.

This is a HUGE fight to be had but let me take a stab at one example.  According to World Wildlife Fund report mentioned in Discovery magazine more than 1,068 new species have been discovered since 1997.  Imagine how many have been discovered since the giving of the Torah over 2,500 years ago.  Especially since at that time we had not discovered 98% of the world including entire continents.

In the Torah it specifically lists by name all the animals that have split hooves but don’t chew their cud, and chew their cud but don’t have split hooves.  BY NAME.  If you are a human and are writing a book you aren’t stupid enough to mention then by name! You give the rule and move on! Don’t be stupid enough, especially with 98% of the world undiscovered, to give specific names!  And yet, since the giving of the Torah not one, NOT ONE animal has been discovered beyond the list given in the Torah that has one and not the other. That is way beyond coincidence or good luck.  That’s divine.

In fact the book itself doesn’t even claim that.

Wrong.  Just flat out wrong.  Over and over it says “the rules that I have given you” the book that “I wrote”.  Anyone you speak to who knows anything will tell you that it isn’t talking about Moshe (especially when it says this book that i gave to Moses.)  Or maybe he had multiple personalities.

Anyways, you take the book to your local university for fact checking and it turns out half the book is completely impossible and much of it is plain wrong.

I recall when people say killing 6 million people is impossible.  I remember that West Point doesn’t study any of the Israeli military victories in their military history class because its impossible to win those wars.  I could go on but I wont.  The very idea behind a miracle is that it’s impossible.  And just plain wrong?  I don’t see any sources for this..try listing one and we can go from there.

Also, linguistic scholars show you that the book was written in different dialects corresponding to different time periods, and they also point out numerous contradictions, omissions, and obvious signs of tampering.

If you are talking about Tanach then yeah of course they were written at different times! It says that!  Omissions? All of a sudden there is a missing book? Like some kind of Oral Torah that would explain the omissions?  Again we agree.  Obvious signs of tampering? See above while I wait for a source that says there is tampering because there is no one I ever heard who says that, even the people who doubt the Torah

You tell this to your friend but he absolutely insists that a super natural being wrote almost every word of it, and anyone who says otherwise just doesn’t know what they are talking about. You think your friend is really nuts. Then he tells you that you must adhere to all the laws in the book, including some very strange ones, and if you don’t, the super natural being will punish you in some way. What do you do?

Well if someone told this to me, i would argue the same way I have, and then he would come up with some made up excuse like “that’s not good enough” and walk away.  Additionally i never claim anyone who believes otherwise “doesn’t know what they are talking about”.  I merely disagree with them.  Can’t you live with someone else disagreeing with you?

What do I do? Look at the facts and realize that the Torah is true and anyone who has done the research would realize it too.  But if he wants to live in state of denial? It’s his life.