America Should be as Civilized as Europe?

I think it’s somewhat ironic that within the first week of publishing this blog I already agree with DK on something. In his most recent post Kvetcher merely posts an article about attacks on Jews in Paris in response to Israel’s attacks on Gaza.  Without saying a single word of commentary DK brings up a very important issue.  

Constantly I hear from people how civilized Europe is, how we should have no death penalty like them, how we should have government healthcare like them, and so on and so on.  Yet, while those may or may not be things worth striving for (they aren’t), protecting a country’s citizens from attack is a far more important issue then whether or not the government pays for you to see a doctor.  

A country like France that doesn’t allow religious people of any kind to wear religious garments to public school (kippa, kafia, cross necklace) shouldn’t be telling countries like America that have real freedom that we are “immoral” or “backward”.

Try getting your own extremest populations under control, and start protecting your citizens before trying to tell the rest of us how to live.  Oh, thats right, they are only Jews…they don’t matter.

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6 Responses to “America Should be as Civilized as Europe?”

  1. DK Says:

    My sarcastic headline was, in fact, commentary. Additionally, I support France’s clamp on religious fundamentalism in public schools and elsewhere. No kippahs; no hijabs or veils.

    Sounds reasonable to me.

  2. cheerer Says:

    I support France’s clamp on religious fundamentalism in public schools and elsewhere. No kippahs; no hijabs or veils.

    Religious fundamentalism? Wearing a religious garb is religious fundamentalism? You REALLY hate religion don”t you? The very fact that you oppose ANY religious garb on the basis of religious fundamentalism is exactly the problem with people like DK. They hate the religious because they claim that we are intolerant of others, while they are MORE intolerant of our private behavior than anything else.

    It is a totally private action when someone wears one of these items, be it Muslim, Christian or Jewish, , how dare you try and prevent us from doing something that has no impact on your daily life. Tolerance only needs to go one way huh?

  3. DK Says:

    No. When you can’t verify a person’s I.D. because she is wearing a burkha, this is a problem. When a Muslim woman in the medical field won’t wash her arms because she doesn’t want to reveal her forearms, this is a problem. When other Muslim teenage women are pressured to wear a hijab in a state school by the other teens, this is a problem.

    And if they have to sacrifice yarmulkes in order to enforce these rules in the public space, so be it.

  4. cheerer Says:

    And how often is ID’ing people in public schools a problem in France? We hear a lot more often about violence against Shuls than I do against students because they aren’t who they thought they were, and yet that isn’t taken care of. Moreover, just like at the airports, there can be checks that can be done by people who are of the same gender.

    What you fail to realize is that the law was NOT enacted because of security, that’s YOUR argument. It was started because the schools wanted to be completely free of religion, including personal observance in a public manner. That is not OK. That is not freedom, and you as an American should see that.

  5. DK Says:

    I see that France has major problems with Muslims, and they can’t ban Muslim expression of religiousity without banning all expressions of religiousity in state schools.

    When you demand Israel have the same level of separation of religion and state that the U.S. does, I’ll take your demands for the same level of French religious freedoms seriously.

  6. cheerer Says:

    Again, you are missing a very important point. The ban was not placed because of Muslims. It was placed because they dont want any intermingling AT ALL between state and religion. Stop putting your own reasons on an action that has nothing to do with them.

    On the Israel religion point let me say 2 things
    1) i have never spoken on the issue how do you know what i feel about it. Stop making preemptive judgments
    2) Israel IS a theocracy. Even if you think it isn’t, Unlike the US and France there is no legal requirement of separation of religion and state. France DOES have a requirement of religious freedom and is not upholding it. Israel on the other hand has NO requirement for separation (nor should it since it is the JEWISH country) so why would I demand it?

    Sometimes you just want to shove your on beliefs on others, EXACTLY what you accuse the kiruv movement of. STOP LETTING DK’s INTO ISRAEL PUBLIC SCHOOL! (sound familiar?)


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